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	<title>Comments on: Patterns for Splitting User Stories</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/</link>
	<description>On making software teams happier and more productive</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:41:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-14129</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardlawrence.info/?p=190#comment-14129</guid>
		<description>Our team has pretty much turned away from Agile and determined that splitting large stories means dev in one sprint and qa in the next sprint.  I.N.V.E.S.T. is discussed but not really considered when splitting stories.

Some stories are dependent by nature, for instance when a story has downstream or up stream effects on otehr teams.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our team has pretty much turned away from Agile and determined that splitting large stories means dev in one sprint and qa in the next sprint.  I.N.V.E.S.T. is discussed but not really considered when splitting stories.</p>
<p>Some stories are dependent by nature, for instance when a story has downstream or up stream effects on otehr teams.</p>
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		<title>By: The Best Resources About User Stories &#171; Product Owner for web applications</title>
		<link>http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-14003</link>
		<dc:creator>The Best Resources About User Stories &#171; Product Owner for web applications</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jan 2012 15:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardlawrence.info/?p=190#comment-14003</guid>
		<description>[...] Patterns for Splitting User Stories [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Patterns for Splitting User Stories [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Roger L. Cauvin</title>
		<link>http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-13440</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger L. Cauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 22:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardlawrence.info/?p=190#comment-13440</guid>
		<description>@Richard - Excellent guide to splitting stories.  Most of the patterns you described split the story along nonfunctional lines.  I.e., the functional part of the story remains largely intact across iterations, but the acceptance criteria are effectively strengthened for each iteration.

The noteworthy exception is pattern #8.  Pattern #8 splits an overarching CRUD type story along functional lines.

And I&#039;d argue, by splitting the story along functional lines, the pattern often violates the INVEST guideline.  Specifically, it often renders the fractured stories not valuable to customers in isolation.

For example, creating data in and of itself is usually not valuable; users want to &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; things with data.  Same for updating and deleting data, and, in many cases, retrieving data.  I don&#039;t really &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; to add an entry to my checkbook; I&#039;d rather it happen automatically.  (Better yet, I&#039;d like to know that my bank is tracking everything properly and that I am not overspending.)

As a general rule, I favor the other patterns you&#039;ve mentioned for splitting stories.  There are a lot of interesting issues surrounding splitting stories that I explored in &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.cauvin.org/2011/07/epic-conversation.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this blog entry&lt;/a&gt;.  I&#039;m curious what you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard &#8211; Excellent guide to splitting stories.  Most of the patterns you described split the story along nonfunctional lines.  I.e., the functional part of the story remains largely intact across iterations, but the acceptance criteria are effectively strengthened for each iteration.</p>
<p>The noteworthy exception is pattern #8.  Pattern #8 splits an overarching CRUD type story along functional lines.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;d argue, by splitting the story along functional lines, the pattern often violates the INVEST guideline.  Specifically, it often renders the fractured stories not valuable to customers in isolation.</p>
<p>For example, creating data in and of itself is usually not valuable; users want to <i>do</i> things with data.  Same for updating and deleting data, and, in many cases, retrieving data.  I don&#8217;t really <i>want</i> to add an entry to my checkbook; I&#8217;d rather it happen automatically.  (Better yet, I&#8217;d like to know that my bank is tracking everything properly and that I am not overspending.)</p>
<p>As a general rule, I favor the other patterns you&#8217;ve mentioned for splitting stories.  There are a lot of interesting issues surrounding splitting stories that I explored in <a href="http://blog.cauvin.org/2011/07/epic-conversation.html" rel="nofollow">this blog entry</a>.  I&#8217;m curious what you think.</p>
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		<title>By: 37 Tasks for a Product Owner’s Job &#187; Agile Trail</title>
		<link>http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-13077</link>
		<dc:creator>37 Tasks for a Product Owner’s Job &#187; Agile Trail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardlawrence.info/?p=190#comment-13077</guid>
		<description>[...] Splitting user stories which are too big (☼). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Splitting user stories which are too big (☼). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: 42 Tasks for a Scrum Master&#8217;s Job &#187; Agile Trail</title>
		<link>http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-12519</link>
		<dc:creator>42 Tasks for a Scrum Master&#8217;s Job &#187; Agile Trail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardlawrence.info/?p=190#comment-12519</guid>
		<description>[...] to write or split user [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to write or split user [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Splitting User Stories &#124; Agile Management</title>
		<link>http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-10326</link>
		<dc:creator>Splitting User Stories &#124; Agile Management</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2011 18:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardlawrence.info/?p=190#comment-10326</guid>
		<description>[...] you want to dig deeper into the subject try Richard Lawrence post on Splitting User Stories for a slightly different take and more examples.    Agile Requirements     &#8592; Agile vs [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] you want to dig deeper into the subject try Richard Lawrence post on Splitting User Stories for a slightly different take and more examples.    Agile Requirements     &larr; Agile vs [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-10250</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 04:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardlawrence.info/?p=190#comment-10250</guid>
		<description>@Mac - The point of the story splitting patterns is to help you find the complexity in a big story so you can focus the split there. Without knowing all the details of your story, it seems clear that the complexity is not in the UI, but in the background activities that make the simple UI possible, so I&#039;d be looking for ways to take slices through those. For example: What&#039;s the simplest slice through the build server you could do to support this story? Is configuring the search engine an &quot;all or nothing&quot; activity, or could you do a simple configuration first and add more functionality with future stories?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mac &#8211; The point of the story splitting patterns is to help you find the complexity in a big story so you can focus the split there. Without knowing all the details of your story, it seems clear that the complexity is not in the UI, but in the background activities that make the simple UI possible, so I&#8217;d be looking for ways to take slices through those. For example: What&#8217;s the simplest slice through the build server you could do to support this story? Is configuring the search engine an &#8220;all or nothing&#8221; activity, or could you do a simple configuration first and add more functionality with future stories?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mac</title>
		<link>http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-10223</link>
		<dc:creator>Mac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 04:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardlawrence.info/?p=190#comment-10223</guid>
		<description>Hi Richard,

How would you split a story which in essence is quite simple: just a search box that should display the results of what you typed in.

The thing is that behind the scenes, we have to configure the search engine and create the interface with it and configure the build server. This is the first story so we decided to work on the build server effort as part of this first story.

We prefer not to work on the so called story-less tasks since we prefer to track stories and not tasks, and don&#039;t like the idea of &quot;technical tasks&quot; to setup an environment for example since I&#039;m not confident in estimating those in terms of story points.

Could we split the search textbox and results story in some way? What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Richard,</p>
<p>How would you split a story which in essence is quite simple: just a search box that should display the results of what you typed in.</p>
<p>The thing is that behind the scenes, we have to configure the search engine and create the interface with it and configure the build server. This is the first story so we decided to work on the build server effort as part of this first story.</p>
<p>We prefer not to work on the so called story-less tasks since we prefer to track stories and not tasks, and don&#8217;t like the idea of &#8220;technical tasks&#8221; to setup an environment for example since I&#8217;m not confident in estimating those in terms of story points.</p>
<p>Could we split the search textbox and results story in some way? What do you think?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-9955</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Aug 2011 11:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardlawrence.info/?p=190#comment-9955</guid>
		<description>Good post Richard!
I have created an acronym to be used as a complement to INVEST with similar ideas as the ones you describe here. I find that many teams have a lot of issues with splitting stories so it is a topic worth exploring.
I call it Splitting User Stories SOUND advice (which I hope it is...):
http://agile-management.com/wordpress/splitting-user-stories/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post Richard!<br />
I have created an acronym to be used as a complement to INVEST with similar ideas as the ones you describe here. I find that many teams have a lot of issues with splitting stories so it is a topic worth exploring.<br />
I call it Splitting User Stories SOUND advice (which I hope it is&#8230;):<br />
<a href="http://agile-management.com/wordpress/splitting-user-stories/" rel="nofollow">http://agile-management.com/wordpress/splitting-user-stories/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://www.richardlawrence.info/2009/10/28/patterns-for-splitting-user-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-9921</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 22:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardlawrence.info/?p=190#comment-9921</guid>
		<description>Richard and Charles:

Thank you for your help!  The problem isn&#039;t so much the art department&#039;s inability to estimate time required as the length of time they require for many pieces, which is just too long for the mandated two-week release cycle.  We&#039;re most likely going to have the art department work ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard and Charles:</p>
<p>Thank you for your help!  The problem isn&#8217;t so much the art department&#8217;s inability to estimate time required as the length of time they require for many pieces, which is just too long for the mandated two-week release cycle.  We&#8217;re most likely going to have the art department work ahead.</p>
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